Football, food and feeling good with Mo Hopkins and a deep dive (!) into fish and chips.

In this episode I am joined by youth football coach Mo Hopkins who works for Bridgwater and Taunton College and for Somerset County Schools FA training the future generation of football talent.  We talk growing up around football and how Mo fits a healthy diet into his busy and active life. I am then joined by Michael and we discuss the history of fish and chips. Plus we explore the calories involved in that delicious Friday night treat and consider how recent events have impacted the price of one of the nation's favourite take-aways.

Guest: Maurice Hopkins, Head of Football at Bridgwater and Taunton College, Somerset
Host: Lynne O'Halloran

Episode Links
To find out more about football at Bridgwater and Taunton College visit www.btc.ac.uk and for Somerset County Schools FA visit somersetcsfa.org.uk or you can both on Instagram and Facebook.

To read more about the UK fish and chip industry visit www.nfff.co.uk

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:11

Hello and welcome to The What's for Dinner Show. My name is Lynne and my aim along with my guests is to explore how our food experiences have influenced our lives as well as our waste lines. I'm also joined on the show by Michael O'Halloran for our regular feature the nugget of knowledge, where we focus on a particular food topic. It could be a deep dive into a particular item of food, or trawl through the latest food news or discussion about a food trend. God forbid we'd have cockles and I'd put as much vinegar on them as possible to try and get some sort of taste into it. It was just like chewing gum really tasteless chewing gum to me. I don't like to be one of these people that go abroad and wont sample things. So I have crashed and burned a few times but also had some success as well. Born in Wales, but raised mainly in Bridgewater Somerset my guest this week is Mo Hopkins, a man for whom football has always been a central part of life. After spending his youth on the pitch, Mo is currently a key part of the football development team at Bridgwater and Taunton College, and also head of football for Somerset County Schools. As a result of his work, he's on the training pitch most days and most evenings and believes a healthy diet is good for both body and mind. I can't put my finger on it, but if I've not eaten fruit or had vegetables for a day, I can tell I just don't feel the same I don't feel as bright and chirpy. Welcome to The What's for Dinner Show. Mo, tell me a little bit about your life as a footballer I played from my hometeam Bridgwater Town which is a semi professional team. I got injured when I was 21 I think it was and it took me a long time to probably get over it because I was so young. I didn't get a chance to, if you like have my pomp as a footballer, and do the best I could. It sort of cut me short, so yeah, I had regrets when I was young but obviously you always have regrets but yeah, it's not a problem. I'm happy where I am now. And how did you first get into football? Oh, like a lot of people might, my dad was into football coaching so he he ran our junior football club back in the day. So did your dad used to take you to to watch games on the weekend? Yeah, we didn't go watch many big games if you like or professional games, but I remember going to watch Swansea City because that was where I was born where I'm from Swansea so I've been to watch Swansea when they were in the old first division. A couple of other clubs as well, but generally just local football like Bridgwater Town or Taunton Town. Okay, so you're a Welsh boy then? I am Welsh. Yes. God's country. And so what were the halftime snacks like at Swansea City back I think they were all pretty much the same. It was like in the day? bovil, and those sorts of things. Pies and all pretty sort of bland and stodgy sort of food. I guess that's what you need on a cold winter's day though. Yeah, definitely. And when you used to get home from the match, would your mom have a hot dinner on the table for you? Sometimes yes. Sometimes she would. She'd say, you know, go and help yourself and you'd sort yourself out and yeah, she'd sometimes make for us or we'll have to go and look after ourselves. So how would you describe growing up in Wales? To be fair, we moved a lot because my dad used to work for Top Rank Industries, so we dotted around the country and I ended up in Bridgwater at quite a young age. So although I used to go back every holiday to Wales, my earliest memories are really of Somerset and Wales as a holiday destination. And so what kind of culinary delights would you have had on holiday in Wales? Would you stay with family or in a Bnb? We'd stay with family, we'd always stay with family. God forbid we'd have cockles and I'd put as much vinegar on them as possible to try and sort of get some sort of taste in to them. So what about nowadays when you're at home, do you do much It was just like chewing gum really, tasteless chewing gum to me. And we'd always go to a fish and chip shop on the Mumbles cooking? No, I don't do a lot of cooking, my wife does. Because obviously, as you know I'm out doing football. So generally Cath will prepare a meal. So no. I do every so often do a pasta, I like to make pasta bakes so I'll do that with chicken and vegetables and cheese. I do like my cheese, unfortunately. So bit guilty of that. Yeah, that's good, so she has your favorite dishes on rotation. Yeah. Definitely on rotation, so she does it week by week. And so how do you think what you used to eat as a child is different to what you might be used to nowadays? I remember as a child, we would always have a roast on a Sunday. And that would either be chicken or it would be pork, sometimes beef, but mainly chicken or pork, so we'd have that on a regular basis. But during the week, my mum used to make a lovely curry. She used to do a nice curry or a stew, her stew was amazing. But in between that it would pretty much be pizzas, chips, sort of the quick stuff really. Fish Fingers? Yeah, fish fingers. Fish fingers, sandwiches, all sorts of things that were on TV and the commercials really, it's sort of like people got drawn towards them and they would be the things that you eat. I think everything would have been handed down over the years from grandparents to mums and then comes down to us and they would have liked you said, recycled all that as well. And now, there's so much more access to different ingredients through the internet. So it has opened our eyes, broadened our horizons a lot. But still, it's still the old favorites though. Curry and pizza and chips. Definitely. And what about trips abroad, are you a big one for holidays? We were for a period of time ,we used to do the Spain, France, Gran Caneria area, but we haven't done it for a long time. The two jobs I've got at the moment, they sort of crossover. So when my term finishes at college, I'm still working at the school. And then when school finishes, I've started back up with college. So my summer is is over and done with quite quickly. But we did do Spain quite a few times and some of the local dishes, I don't like to be one of these people that go abroad and wont sample things. So I've crashed and burned a few times, but also had some success as well. So come on then, what have you rashed and burned with? Fish. Fish dishes. I'm a bit bland when it comes to fish dishes. So I've had a few fish dishes that didn't go down too well. That can ruin your holiday! Oh, definitely. We won't get there. So I guess that would be a disastrous meal that you've had. Are there any other meals you can think of where it's just gone horribly wrong? Oh, God. Yes. My stepfather made a curry and it was it like pot pourii, it was all fragrance and didn't taste like anything I was used to on my palate. It was definitely an acquired taste. I do like chicken dishes and being into sports I don't like heavy meats during the summer period. It's probably salads more than anything. Or it might be a chicken curry. but a light one or just chicken. Recently, I've just been having chicken with Reggae, Reggae sauce, a bit of fried rice. And it must be said, I must be honest, it gives you some really good energy to push on with. And obviously like you said, I do like fruit or I do like a bit of salad or vegetables to go with it, because you've got to have that as well. The youngsters that you're working with at the college, do they have a good understanding of what they should be eating to maximize their fitness and their health? I think so. I think sometimes everyone's guilty of being a bit lazy, but I think they're well educated by the college in terms of what's going to be good for them to eat and to digest and obviously give them as much, if you like, bang for their buck because you want something that's going to sustain your energy levels for you to work hard on the pitch off the pitch and get yourself ready. So they seem to be okay. Although when we have away games, they all want to stop in Kentucky, they want to get a Big Mac. So yeah, they sort of slip on match days, but only after the game. Yeah, well, I guess that's such a celebratory tradition, to stop at a fast food outlet on the motorway and get what you know, you shouldn't be having. They're certainly a lot more educated than I was when I was young, even down to the fluids that you take now and the minerals and all that. We just drank water because we thought we were hot. Whereas we didn't realize it was a necessity to make sure that you keep your fluid levels high for decision making and obviously keeping you from getting into that level of fatigue. What about the sort of protein drinks and all the sort of supplement things that youngsters can get their hands on nowadays? Yeah, there's certainly evidence to suggest that doing that within a window after a game is important because protein obviously helps repair the muscle fibers and so there certainly was a cluster the boys that did it religiously. And you could tell it made an impact because you just looked at their body frame and you could tell they looked very athletic. Yeah, so it can contribute but I guess just needs to be kept in perspective and be part of a healthy diet. Yeah. definitely part of a healthy diet. I mean, like you say, you can have cheat days every now and then as a bit of a treat, but I think it is important, especially if you're thinking about the finer margins and the top end of sport that you do need to look at every little avenue to give yourself an edge. Even literally 10 years ago, you could probably be a very talented footballer and on talent alone, you could play at a reasonable level, I think now, to play at a really good reasonable level, you need to be an athlete as well as talented. So I think it's changed a little bit now, because everybody's switched on to looking after their bodies a little bit better. They're a little bit more dedicated, it certainly helps to make sure you stay on top of it. I think anything that's going to reduce your ability to perform, you find it rarer and rarer nowadays. You certainly can't go out and have eight pints, and then get up the next day and expect to perform or even train at the best level that you should be and it is going to affect you eventually. Yeah. So if you're out in Bridgwater and you spotted one of your lads having a couple of beers the night before a match... would they be on the starting bench? Probably not. No. Because if you let them get away with it once they'll do it again, if you let them get away with it, somebody else might want to get away with it. And then all of a sudden, you've got chaos in your team and you've got no order, no dedication. So yeah, you'd certainly have a little bit of a word in their shell. On a day to day basis then you obviously place quite a lot of importance on on what you eat. Are you an advocate of of any particular sort of diet or one of these fasting diets that people seem quite keen on now? Have you ever tried anything like that? I'm quite fortunate because I'm so active, I don't need to be religious on how much I eat, I can pretty much eat reasonably well without worrying about it. But I do try and eat healthy if I can. Plus, I do a lot of cycling and if I'm carrying excess weight, then it's harder for me to get up the hills. But do you find that if you have a day where you're not eating well, that it makes you feel not as good sort of mentally as well as physically? Oh, definitely mentally. I can't put my finger on it, but if I've not eaten fruit or had vegetables for a day, I can tell I just don't feel the same I don't feel is bright and chirpy. I feel a little bit lethargic. So I try to make sure that I keep on top of having my fruit having my vegetables, whether that's in a form of eating it raw as it is where you have it in a meal. So yeah, that's definitely part of my regular diet So are you a smoothie lover, do you get the old Nutri Bullet blender out? I was for a while actually, I was having my smoothies regularly for a while but now I'm a bit switched off. So I've gone back to raw fruit now. But yes, I have, I have been an advocate of having smoothies. When I was young, my dad used to try and get me to eat raw tomatoes. I can have tomatoes blended or on a pizza, but I can't eat a raw tomato. That feeling that, that urge feeling, because when I was young it used to make me urge because of the sharpness of it. That's one of the foods that I try to avoid. And the more and more he used to try and make me do it the more it would switch me off. And people laugh at this, I chop up bananas on top of my Cornflakes or Frosties and then I crunch up nuts, mixed nuts, and put that on top. That is always a go-to for me. My friend and I we used to have Weetabix and we would have them dry and smear them with butter and top with banana if we could. So they're like a biscuit. Yeah, had that. If there is no milk you just have your Weetabix dry! I've got some in the cupboard, maybe I'll give it a try! Personally, one that I struggled with wias spaghetti bolognese. It was the plum tomatoes in it. I struggled with spaghetti bolognese and there is a funny story... we had a monster plant next to the dining table and I would mix my spaghetti bolognese in with the soil at the bottom of the monster plant to try and disperse it so I could get away with not eating it! No wonder the plant was a monster! It was a big plant. It was a big plant. Who's most inspired you do you think in terms of your eating habits? Watching the boys and seeing how well they perform and then you find out what they eat at and that sometimes makes a difference because you can always learn from everybody. They are good boys, they are switched on and you can learn a lot from them. Do they have their weight and height and heart rate and whatever else monitored regularly as part of their training? Yeah, we track all those things and we track them every game and training as well to see what they're doing to see if they're working at the levels they should be working at or it could potentially show up some problems. Certainly with what they've got access to, and if we'd have had that access youngsters, when we were young, it would have made a big difference. Yeah, maybe we would have won the World Cup? I think so. Definitely done it by now. That's for sure. Well, maybe the next generation? Great. Okay. Thanks, Mo, it's been lovely speaking to you. I hope everything goes well for you for the rest of the season and into the next. Thanks very much Lynne. Okay, cheers. Hey, the show's not over just yet. Now it's time for a little Nugget of Knowledge. So my guest Mo Hopkins talked about eating fish and chips on the Mumbles in Wales when he used to go on holiday to Wales. Michael, do you remember if you ate fish and chips when you went on holiday? Yeah, sure. All the time. It was one of the seaside treats that we would have really, I remember sitting on the Promenade or on the beach and tucking into some fish and chips with my parents. Absolutely. So I bet while you were sat there you didnt really think very much about the history of fish and chips. No, I wasn't that deep really. No, no, I don't suppose many people are about their their Friday fish and chips. But I'm here to tell you that basically, fish and chips were sold separately as two different items. That's a crazy idea! I know imagine having them not together? So fish coated in a light batter and fried in oil originated really with the Portuguese and Spanish Jewish communities. So they used to serve fish on a Friday evening at the start of Shabbat or the Sabbath because obviously, in the Jewish religion, they're not allowed to cook any food for 24 hours I think it is. Yeah, so Why was the oil reluctant? they would have fish coated in in a light flour batter on a Friday evening, and it was always fried in oil so that it could be eaten cold for the third Sabbath meal on the Saturday afternoon. It's believed that's where the idea of frying fish in batter originated from. It was only in 1860 that they believe the first fish and chip shop was opened in London. That was the first time that fish and chips were sold together as a sort of a takeaway meal. In Bow in East London and it was opened by an Eastern European Jewish immigrant called Joseph Malin, so there's the connection to the Jewish religion. Good old Charles Dickens, he mentions 'fried fish warehouses' in Oliver Twist, that was in 1838 that was published and in 1845, a chap called Alexis Soyer, who wrote one of the early cookbooks called 'A Shilling Cookery for the People', he gives a recipe for 'fried fish, Jewish fashion', and it's a fish dipped in a batter mix of flour and water. Now, the chips obviously, they first appeared about the same time and again, Charles Dickens mentioned them in A Tale of Two Cities,. There is a quote from that novel: "Husky chips of potato fried with some reluctant drops of oil." is anything but reluctant! Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So Charles Dickens was obviously a big fan of fish and chips separately. Presumably, I'm not sure when he died, but if he was around in 1860, I'm sure he will have visited Joseph Malin's shop. Up north by the way, the first fish and chip shop, apparently, was opened by a chap called Mr John Lee's and that was in about 1863. So really it's a tale of two chip shops. Yeah, maybe! By 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. And in the 1930s there were over 35,000. 35,000? That's a lot. But I suppose there wasn't much else. I don't know. Maybe pie and mash shops would have been around. Jellied eels? Yeah. But we certainly wouldn't have had the variety that you see down Camden Market these days. No, that's right. You wouldn't have been able to get Vietnamese How did they do that? and, you know, Venezuelan food and goodness knows what else. Another weird thing I thought really was that the British Government safeguarded the supply of fish and chips during the First World War and in the Second World War. Well, in the Second World War, it wasn't rationed. I think the idea was that fish and chips was such a popular treat for the working class. Keeping morale up, maybe? Absolutely, yes, yes. So it was considered Important. And according to legend, British soldiers storming the Normandy beaches on D Day would identify each other by yelling out 'fish' and waiting for the coded response... Chips! Exactly. Hey, maybe we should try that. Yeah. Next time we're in a crowded space. Yeah, yeah. Next time we go to a gig or a concert I'll call. Yeah you can be fish and I'll be chips. Yeah, okay. We'll try it. So that's kind of all I know about the history of fish and chips really. It's a pretty grand history really. There is another literary reference, which I quite liked which was in George Orwell's The Road to Wigan Pier, which was published in 1937. And that is about... I don't know if you've read that one, have you? Not sure I have. No, but it documents his experience of working class life in the north of England and again, he considered fish and chips. among one of the 'home comforts, which acted as a panacea to the working class.' Yeah, okay. Okay. He knew his stuff George. Close down those fish and chip shops at your peril! And, of course,a very famous fish and chip entrepreneur is Harry Ramsden, he opened his first fish and chip shop in 1928. One of his shops was in the Guinness Book of Records, because in 1952, this particular shop served 10,000 portions of fish and chips in a day. Was that just a particularly busy day? Or had he set out to do that? Well, I'm thinking probably for the Guinness Book of Records he probably set out to do it. He probably advertised and encouraged people to come. But still to be able to serve that many. He must have had some pretty speedy fryers. and chip choppers. That's quite hard work. Because I did actually work in a chip shop. Me too, I've worked in a fish and chip shop. We don't really think about the the effort that goes into producing the fish and chips in the chip shop and the hard work that goes into it, because it looks like such, in some respects, a very simple food, doesn't it? You know, great care needs to be taken in actually producing really good fish and chips. Yeah, absolutely. Nowadays, of course, there's only about 10,500 fish and chip shops in the UK according to the National Federation of Fish Fryer. Still a pretty big number though. They serve 380 million meals of fish and chips every year. Wow. So what does that kind of workout at? It's the equivalent of six servings of fish and chips to every man, woman and child in the UK. Six? Okay, I reckon you know, since we moved and had one of the best, well, if not the best fish and chip shop quite local to us - the Blue Ocean here in Taunton, I'm going to really overachieve on that front. Yeah. How many of you had since we moved here in February? I've probably had at least five right. Okay. Yeah, so you're gonna go way over. 80% of UK population buy fish and chips once a year, and 22% by every week. 22% every week? Well, as you say it's a Friday night tradition for a lot of people. Right now, come on, nutrition wise, what do you think fish and chips is, good or bad? I would say pretty good. Especially if you have the mushy peas aswell. I suppose the the balance of protein and carbohydrate and fats, it's probably not that bad at all. It depends on how well it's cooked, which I imagine is to do with the quality of the oil, the temperature of the oil, how often the oil is changed, you know, and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, so if you go to a decent place, then presumably, the nutritional value is going to be better. I mean, looking at the NFFF, which is the National Federation of Fish Friers, they have looked at 250 grams of chips cut into 1.4 centimeters by 1.7 centimeter chip slices - that apparently is the optimum... It's pretty robust piece of science. Yes and that has just under 600 calories, so you know that's pretty hefty. And then 150 gram fish portion has got around 320 320. That's not bad. calories. No. I mean, I'm assuming that's the fish and the batter, that's the end product that you're consuming. So again, the quality of the batter probably plays a part. And it does vary a lot due to the portion sizes. Some of the fish that we've had from the fish shop down the road have been huge, you know, chip portions are always huge. Yeah. So next time we have it, we might get the scales down and have a weigh. It's coming in then at about 900 calories, sort of, as an average, which to my mind is probably about the same as burger, maybe even less if you had a burger with lots of other toppings and cheese and goodness knows what else on. But they reckon that you'd have to run for an hour and 15 minutes to burn off the equivalent calories. You could have fish and chips on the Friday and then up and out for a run long run on the Saturday morning. If you're looking for quality fish and chips, the good old NFFF publishes an annual list of accredited fish and chip shops that meet their high standards. It's been in the news quite a lot lately fish and chips. Because of the price rises us? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the price rises of fish and chips are due to mainly the impact of the war in in Ukraine. That's the main impact? Yeah, it would seem so. Just in the last week or so it's been talked about the challenges for supplying wheat to the global food market and obviously, that's required for fish batter, Ukraine is known as the'breadbasket of Europe', for the amount of wheat that it provides and that's not been happening. In addition to that, there's rising energy costs, plus the cost of gas has meant that fertilizer has also gone up in price, which has affected the price of potatoes. So it's like a perfect storm? Well, it is really , yeah. I mean, we produce a lot of our own fertilizer, but apparently quite a lot comes from Russia. So on both counts, supplies have been disrupted. It's quite worrying really, like, you know, you say that the number of fish and chip shops has decreased, it's down to 10,000 I think you siad. Now, hopefully this latest kind of battering that they're taking, is not going to affect the numbers even more. Well, I mean, it probably will, you know, I mean, the supply of fish is another. Around 40% of the fish sold come from Russian trawlers so obviously, that's a bit of a challenge. And then the UK and American governments have issued trade sanctions against Russia, which have also increased the prices of fish. Import taxes on fish imports from Russia now stands at 35% , which is considerably more than they used to be. Sunflower oil as well, which is often used for the frying, Russia and Ukraine produce over 50% of the world's sunflower seeds, which are used to manufacture sunflower oil. So that has been problematic. And then last but not least, there's been a return to 20% VAT on the catering industry, which I think was waived or or reduced anyway during the COVID pandemic. Last time you bought fish and chips? How much did it cost? Hum, one portion of chips and a couple of cod, that was about 16 pounds. So do you think it represented value for money? I think so. Yeah. Absolutely. Funnily enough, actually, there was a fight in there when I was there. Yeah, one of the fish got battered. Sorry. I had to say that. Tough times generally but you've kind of helped me understand a little bit more about the fish and chip industry and actually the impacts that it's suffering at the moment. Yeah, definitely. So kind of means that you know, fish and chips is taking a battering, but it's a battering in the pocket as well. It's still value for money, compared to you know, pizzas and curry, maybe not to a McDonald's type meal where you can get a Big Mac meal for sort of under six quid. But it's a different experience. Yeah. I know which one I prefer personally. Yeah, fish and chips. Absolutely. So have you got any more fish and chip jokes that you want to share with us, Michael? I've got one other I think. A guy walks into a chip shop with a fish under his arm. He says to the guy behind the counter,"Have you got any fish cakes?" and the man says "No, sorry, we don't do fishcakes". So he says"That's a shame, it's his birthday today." And on that we'll sign off till next time. Thank you Michael! Thanks for listening to episode 4 of The What's for Dinner Show. If you enjoyed it, please share to anyone you know and help me spread the word about my new podcast. You can easily share from your podcasts provider which might be Apple, or it might be Spotify. Or you can find me on Facebook, where you can follow my page and share my posts. Search for @what's for dinner show. Why not check out my previous episodes? You can listen to Karie Crane talk about her journey to health and fitness and if you're looking for a way to get exercise into your own life, you can sign up to her fitness classes, mention The What's for Dinner Show and get your first week's membership free! Once again thanks for listening. See you next time. Just before I go I'd like to say thank you to Rick Simmonds, The Content Podcaster - check out his podcast - and thank you to www.pixelby for the music.